Granny's Crazy Eight
Note: This journal is being transferred from the one on my computer. So this first post contains the first 3 weeks before starting my CFC Journal. It’s really for my own purposes, so I have a pretty complete picture, all in one spot.
Mars Hydro 2’x4’ tent
4” Carbon filter
4” Inline exhaust fan
Mars Hydro SP3000 light
Holland Basics Coco seedling Mix
Holland Basics prepared Coco with Perlite mixed (75/25)
Technaflora nutrient line
I have 8 clones, all different stains. I will be vegging all 8 for the initial month or so, then 4 plants will be going to a friend, once her set up is complete. I will be keeping 4 plants.
Strains(all from Ethos Genetics) : Super Lemon Haze, Peanut Butter Breath, Oreo Mintz, Cherry Gar See Ya, Grandpa’s Stash, Orange Kush Cake, Blueberry Sunset, and Candy Store.
June 16 – Day 1 Clones arrived and were in pretty rough shape. They were noticeably wilted, and completely cover in soil.. Not a good start! I cleaned them up and potted them in 1 Litre plastic pots filled with a coco seedling mix. They were watered with PH 6.0 water, as per instructions on the bag. Placed in the tent , 18” below the light, which was dimmed to 50%. They are much bigger/taller than I expected.
Day 2 All 8 plants are stuggling big time! Not really droopy anymore, but rather twisted and curled, and yellowing at the tips. They are still plenty wet, so no more water. Temperature and Humidity are all over the place.
Day 3 There is no improvement, infact they are worse. Gave them PHed water again, and tested the runoff…EC over 8000! Seed mix is way too hot! Against advice of my friend, I decided to repot them in the coco/perlite mix. EC of runoff from that is also way to high. Flushed that with PHed water until I hit EC 660, then repotted and watered them with the Transplant recipe. EC 660 PH 6.2.
Still not sure I did the right thing. Buddy said that was normal, and EC from natural soil additives (worm castings, etc) are not the same as EC of liquid nutrients…basically, the EC 8000+ has to last for two weeks, until liquid nutrients begin, and eventually would have leveled off. What can I say…I paniced!!
Day 4 They perked up quite a bit. Temperature and humidity are still way too low . Ordered a humidifier and heater. In the mean time, I placed bowls of water, which increase humidity some, and turned the house temperature up, and lowered the speed of the inline exhaust..
Day 5 6 7 Lots and lots of research which has lead me to Coco for Cannabis. Little wonder they are doing so poorly, I’ve done every thing wrong. Coco is totally different than soil! Green algea on perlite…way too much watering and crazy climate changes I expect.
Humidifier and heater arrived, so temperature and humidity are better, but still not constant, and both still need to come up. There’s lots of airflow from the fans, so I turned off the inline exhaust completely. This helped some, but not enough. Ordered both a temperature and humidity controller.
Everyone is looking pretty miserable again and showing lots of signs of deficiency. Started to use CFC feed chart at EC 1200 adjusted to 1430 for tap water. Fertigating twice a day giving 60 – 100 ml each time. Also keeping track of runoff EC and PH for each plant. RunOff is way lower than inflow.
Hooked up the new climate controls set heat to 26 c and humidity at 77%. Finally! Climate is controlled!
Ladies are looking even worse, and runoff is still consistently and drastically below inflow EC. Contacted Technaflora, and they say I’m not mixing my nutrients correctly. That I should not be using PH up or down, to arrive at the correct PH. Instead, I should be mixing as per recipe chart, then add plain water until I reach a PH of 6.2. That determines the correct dose, regardless of EC?!?! That means inflow EC 2279 PH 6.2. Ordered GH Calimag so I can give them foliar sprays.
Showing more signs of deficiencies, I think calmag. Started foliar spray twice a day to see if that helps. Runoff EC is still way lower than inflow EC. Realized I had calculated incorrectly!! Inflow should be around 50 ml, I’ve been giving 60-100ml!!!
Went to hydro store to get help with my nutrients. They pointed out that I still wasn’t using Technaflora correctly, as I should be following a feed, water, water, feed schedule. That exact thing was cautioned against on CFC. Going to switch to General Hydroponics, because then I can follow along with how they do things. Can’t get everything, some stuff I’ll have to order. In the meantime, my reading and research makes me think they have lock out. Did a Florakleen flush.
Next fertigation, I went back to mixing nutrients by mixing the correct NER and diluting to EC 1430. This is the EC 1200 adjusted for my water, then ph down to reach ph6.0.
They all perked up quite a bit! They seem to be greener for some reason, and leave are reaching up. Runoff EC is really high, but I figure that’s because I dropped them from around EC 2200 to EC 1400.
Improvements were short lived, and showing the same signs of deficiencies, and some new ones. Runoff EC is again falling below inflow, some by a lot! I need help.
First I was still over-fertigating . Even though I had corrected the inflow amount to 50ml, I also needed to cut back to once a day. I corrected this immediately. I found another GH supplier, and found almost everthing… Officially on General Hydroponics nutrients, mixed using CFC feed charts, setting EC targets following their growth cycles.
I have spidermites. I couldn’t see them until I looked with x20 magnification, as they recommended. First treatment, I sprayed them all down with plain water, then when dry, went over each leaf , front and back with a clean soft brush, onto a papertowel soaked in alcohol, to make sure everyone was DEAD! I only found around 8 actual mites, and only on two plants. I’m sure I missed some…ordered a hands free magnifier with light, and a jewelers loupe, so I can be sure of a thorough job. Before putting them back in the tent, everything was sprayed and wiped down with a bleach solution. Next night, each plant was dunked in miticidal soap. Once dry, each leaf was checked. Didn’t find any, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t there! The next night, went back to a plain water spray soak, and checked leaves again. Didn’t find any again.
GH diet is now complete, with a substitute for Armour SI. Inflow EC 1385 PH 6.2. Inflow amount varies with each plant, to get enough runoff, ranging from 60-85ml. Runoff EC is below inflow for all, but I expect that will settle out, after a few more cycles. Oreo Mintz is doing VERY poorly, with continued drooping. Still hoping for a coco miracle. Candy Store is showing similar signs and she is starting to wilt.
Granny's Crazy Eight...Granny's Crazy Seven
Temp – 26.4
RH – 77.8%
Inflow: EC 1400 PH 6.29
Runoff: ranges from EC 926 – to EC 1424
Runoff EC continues to be much lower than inflow, for all but one. Improvement from yesterday, but still drastically lower. This makes me think they want more, and that I should slowly raise EC, but I don’t want to rock the boat again just yet.
Also @nyweedman pointed out that my inflow temperatures are too high, which would have affected the EC for the plants. Fixed that by moving the bucket of water used to mix nutrients solution away from the warm tent. Temperature now is right around 68 F. Hopefully this help.
Tonight the ladies were sprayed with a neem oil mx, then checked leaves. There are still no signs of mites still on the plants. I’m sure there will be more, after new ones hatch, so will continue treating them all, after giving them a couple of days to recover from all the spraying.
Fertigation was different tonight…I use a large 150 ml syringe to water, which allows me to give in 10ml at a time, slowly, to be sure everything gets distributed, and I get true runoff, instead of runthrough. They took considerably less solution, almost half the amount for all. I guess this makes sense, with all the additional water they have received from spraying for mites.
That would certainly explain why Oreo Mintz and now Candy Store look like they are drowning… they are!! I should have stretched the spray sessions out more. Maybe give a night of rest between spraying, or atleast drape the coco surface when spraying, so it doesn’t absorb all that spray, instead of nutrient solution.
Oreo Mintz didn’t make it, and Candy Store isn’t far behind. She’s sitting closer to the fan to dry her out, but not looking good.
The remaining six don’t look much better. The green algea is definitely better. The leaves are so yellow and damaged, but at least they aren’t wilting. There is some yellowing of tips, which would make me think EC is too high, but the runoff EC is so much lower, I’m just not sure!
July 13 - 10pm
Inflow EC=1435 **Still starting at 1200 with tap water adjust to 1435...Can't let water sit out or it's too warm.
So we are down to 6...Candy Store didn't pull through.
Each of the remaining 6, took 80-90ml inflow, with runoff of 10-14 ml.
Runoff EC ranges between 794 - 1188, which means ALL 6 now have Runoff EC well below inflow(-245 to -641) I feel like they are wanting higher EC, but still kinda chicken to change too much. There could be a slight improvement in some of the newer growth on top...the stalk is green above the purple. Doesn't appear to be any more tip changes, so that's good I guess. Tomorrow will hopefully show some more improvement!
July 14 - 10pm
Inflow EC=1435 **Still starting at 1200 with tap water adjust to 1435
Inflow 80-100 ml Runoff 9-11 ml
These ladies continue to baffle me...for the sixth fert. in a row, runoff EC continues to steadily drop, and remains drastically lower than inflow EC... Runoff EC ranges from 720 to 1184...RO EC for Grandpa and Blueberry are 720 and 796, or almost half inflow EC. I guess I must consider raising inflow EC, slowly...I don't want to continue underfeeding, if that's the problem, but I don't want to mess up again either. Tomorrow I'll reread a couple articles before making a final decision.
Also want to be sure PH meter is calibrated correctly, because messed up PH could also account for some of my continuing issues. I have a calibration kit, but it wants to calibrate at 4.0 and 7.0, but my PH meter calibrates at 4.0 and 6.87. I have no clue if that small difference could cause issues, and I'm not taking any chances...so I'll get distilled water to mix with the 6.87 powder in the kit.
So I do see some small improvements with new growth on top...the damaged areas still look horrid, but baby steps! The main change is that the stalks and stems appear to be turning green again, from the purplish red they have been sporting. See pic attached.
Roots are now visible from drainage holes in pots, and tonight's leaf inspection didn't find any mites.
July 15 - 10pm
Inflow EC=1250 +235 EC tap water = EC=1485
Inflow 65-100 ml Runoff 8-12 ml
Runoff EC is still well below Inflow, so beginning with small increase of 50 to inflow EC. I'm not too worried about this anymore, as Dr. Coco addresses this in several forum questions, and always says not to worry, it means I'm giving my girls what they want. So all good!!
I did decide to give a calmag foliar spray at lights off (4pm), at 1.25 ml/L. And at lights on (10pm), there is noticeable improvement again...twice in one day!! The leaves are looking much healthier, and their color is darkening a bit, and much less of the lime green. I'd say they liked the foliar treat!
There is also a bit of a height gain on all 6, with Cherry Gar See Ya, starting to bushing up. Roots now visible out the drainage holes of all 6 plants as well.
Can't wait to see what tomorrow brings!
July 16 - 10pm
Inflow EC=1300 +235 EC tap water = EC=1535
Inflow 70-100 ml Runoff 10-15 ml
Increase inflow EC by 50 again tonight. That's an increase of 100 over 2 days. I'll keep it here for a couple of days, and see if Runoff EC starts to come up. Thanks again @nyweedman ! Runoff EC is still really low, ranging from 736 to 1169.
Gave them another foliar spray this afternoon...they really seem to like these. Did a little more reading in the forum, and 2 sprays can be given daily, so the had another this evening.
New growth still looks okay, and better since the foliar sprays began for sure, but new leaves still are not completely happy yet. I continue to fertigate once daily, but inflow amount is steadily increasing each time, and all are now needing well over the 10% threshold to achieve adequate runoff.
I will be happy when they are ready to be potted up, and I can increase the perlite ratio to 50/50. I feel like that will also help to regulate runoff EC. LOL Or hoping at least.
Crazy busy few days, so two days of update in one post.
July 17 10pm
Inflow EC=1300 +235 EC tap water = EC=1535
Inflow 75-105 ml Runoff 11-12 ml
New growth is continuing to come in looking really nice, with leaves and stems pretty much normal…So nice to see!! However, the leaves begin to show signs of deficiencies not long after(not as bad as previously), with the new stems still looking to be in good shape.
There is another noticeable gain in height of about 1/4 – ½” in all but one. Super Lemon Haze seems to have stalled…and any new growth is at a slower rate than her other 5 friends.
I’m actually quite concerned with how tall they are getting…they should have been topped long ago! I keep putting it off because they have been so unhealthy, and doing any topping basically removes the only healthy part of the plant…I can’t imagine that will do them any good, but I am certainly restricted on height with this tent. So wish I had gone with the 4 x 4 tent with an extra 18” in height…I can see an upgrade in the near future! LOL
July 18 10pm
Inflow EC=1300 +235 EC tap water = EC=1535
Inflow 70-100 ml Runoff 10-13 ml
Well clearly, my girls did not appreciate my comments yesterday about their deficiencies…lights on tonight was the first time new growth is still looking green and healthy for two days in a row, with no loss of color etc… Come on girls, let’s go for the hat trick!!
@oldwoman recommended I try a supplement addition called Recharge, which I’m planning to add ASAP…she’s had great success with many of the same issues I’m trying to fix, particularly low run off EC!
I’m not posting data again tonight, but I did want to give an update of some recent development nonetheless. Sadly, my brother passed away, and things have been just upside down, and will be for a bit to come. However, I have managed to keep up with their daily schedule, and recording all daily data…I just haven’t managed to get them posted yet. I’ll catch up when things settle down a bit!
I took each plant outside to take some pictures in natural light that hopefully better highlights the deficiencies, with respect to color etc. I meant to take a group shot to show the crazy difference in size and height…but I forgot.
So first, Cherry is a little droopy….and I know from almost drowning them before, this usually means overwatering…but I just don’t think that’s it. I use a huge syringe to deliver 5-10ml of solution at a time, until runoff begins. Then I use a 10ml syringe to draw up runoff , if I haven’t hit 10%, I repeat this process until I hit 10%. So Cherry doesn’t even start to runoff until she hits 100+ml of inflow. Still fertigating only once daily, and still in a 1 L pot, so it just can’t be overwatering. I could bring the humidity down a bit, it still is pretty high considering how many weeks in we are, so I guess it could be a transpiration issue.
Now all that said, I do think I figured out one major problem at least…I mentioned before that I had problems calibrating the PH pen…I only had the 3 different solutions and it called for the powder and distilled water…Cheap ass pen bottom line! Anyway, finally got the powder, took several readings of different solutions, and the buffering solutions, then calibrated…it was out by .28!! So when I adjusted my PH to 6.2, they were actually getting PH 6.48. I’m pretty convinced they have nutrient lock out! That would certainly account for so many issues I’m seeing in the leaves, stalks, and stems. Foliar calmag helps up bit, so they are taking in through their leaves, so it has to be a root issue. The only problem with my lockout theory, is that if they are not taking up nutrients through the roots, I would expect to see a high runoff EC…and although RO EC is slowly creeping up with very small increases in inflow EC, it still remains REALLY low.
@chefomj confirmed that any topping needs to wait until they are completely recovered…we’re not in any rush…they can have as long as they like! LOL A couple are gonna look like palm trees!! Hahaha I was also hoping to also wait to pot them up when they were doing better as well, and all at the same time. But I may have to do 2-3, due to their size. But I am looking forward to increasing perlite to 50%, and not compacting the pots as much…That could also explain Cherry’s droop!
Still no data to post…these last two weeks, have been a complete blurr! While I have kept up with the girls’ schedule, I certainly haven’t been able to spend the time I usually do going back over data, and seeing where I can improve.
I was so sure that my problem was PH related lockut, after realizing my PH meter wasn’t calibrated correctly! But many pointed out, that while it was off by a lot, my PH still managed to fall within the acceptable range, although barely! Well that sucks!! LOL
Back to the drawing board!! Back to basics…back through all the articles, tutorials etc…because while doing much better compared to before I found CCFC, they still aren’t happy! So back over data and numbers to see what worked, and what didn’t.
After this re-read, I did make some decisions…first…it’s time to take off the training wheels! Because these girls have been so unhealthy, from day one, I am still treating them like they are in early veg, with respect to temp, RH, and nutrient recipe. Second, my tap water has been fluctuating far too much, and a couple times exceeded EC>350 microS. Until I get way better at diagnosing problems and deficiencies, I need to account for every microS(mS) of EC going in and out. So at least for now, I’ve switched to bottled distilled water.
I am leary making too many changes at once, as I won’t know what specifically fixed the problem(s) when I finally do get things sorted out. Ahhh…that’s the first time I’ve said when instead of if! So other than the change to distilled water, I set the new temp to 27 C, and lowered RH to 74%. Let that sit for a couple of days. I am way way overdue for potting up, but I feel like I need to get these deficiencies straightened out, before I quadruple my suspended solution, which I may need to shift if I screw things up!
So starting with the most obvious, calmag deficiency…colours and markings look about right, maybe on the severe side…they did show some improvement with foliar calmag spray. From what I’ve read there are 3 basic ways to correct a calmag deficieny…Foliar sprays…doing…increase calmag dose in nutrient mix…already at max dose (5ml/gal)…increase inflow volume, or fertigation events.
I know everyone’s money is on “Granny’s drowing them again” hahaha, but @dr-coco stresses several times to listen to your plants! And my gut was telling me that wasn’t the problem this time, as I was accounting for every ml of inflow and runoff. So during the two days I watched for changes due to climate adjustment, I began weighing each plant every 2-3 hours, and taking a pic of my drooper, Cherry, each time. Normally, I would fertigate at light on, and then go to bed, and find Cherry in the same sad shape in the morning. So imagine my surprise…the first pic is Cherry at lights on…second pic is 3 hours later…third picture is 8am(6hrs later)
This pretty much sealed the deal for me! More inflow it is!!! So it also became crystal clear all six girls were not going to be on the same fertigation schedule! My two “palm trees”, take up far less water for example. So each plant is fertigated only after losing 60g(60 ml) (1g=1ml; 60ml=10% susp. Sol) This is the second day following this routine. Currently Cherry is at 3 fert/day (almost 4), Lemon Haze is twice daily, and the other four are in between. I reduced temp again, to 26C and RH to 72%. So far I’m seeing definite improvement, with lots of new growth already and new shoots everywhere. Now, if we can just maintain! These pics were just taken at lights on…Cherry was the only one requiring a fert.
July 26 10pm
Temp = 27.1 C
RH = 73.5
EC = 1350 **I began using distilled water, so there is no tap water adjustment
Runoff EC is still gradually coming up!
Today we continued with letting the girls decide when they would like a drink…This means weighing them every few hours to see how much suspended solution they are holding on to, and when they have shed 60g (60ml), they get inflow volume to achieve almost exactly 10% Runoff. I’m actually measuring every ml…LMAO! I'm going to have to play around with timing ferts better, around lights off period...They all needed a bigger drink when lights came back on, meaning all 6 fell below by threshold of 60ml.
So far, they really seem to be liking this, along with 1-2 foliar calmag sprays a day. I notice even more improvement today…new growth continues, and seems to be holding its’s color…way less splotchy, lime green leaves, with yellowish spots, and edges…way less purple on the stalks, and overall the leaves are bigger. In fact, some of the less damaged leaves are actually showing color change, towards the deeper green that I typically associate with MJ plants. Pretty sure that’s a good thing. It’s kinda hard to see it this light, but it’s been pouring here for two day…no outdoor photo ops!
I have started to prepare for potting up the tribe in a few more days…added 5 L of perlite to every 10L of the 75/25 coco/perlite, to correct my mix to 50/50. Rearranged the tent, and lowered the wire shelf the plants sit on. Then adjusted the light back to 18” above Cherry(tallest).
Finally, I re positioned both circulating fans, to increase airflow…hope they tolerate the increased ‘wind’!
July 27 10pm
Temp = 26.1 C
RH = 71.7 %
EC = 1355 *** distilled water
PH = 5.92
Runoff EC is still coming up slow and steady…Cherry is pretty much perfect at about +100 above inflow! All 5 others are now just below inflow.
So mixed a fresh batch of nutrient solution. So much more fun now that I don’t have to try and measure teeny amounts of sticky yucca! Thanks again @berkshirebud! After mixing up my batch, after adding the yucca, and shaking, I let it sit for 20 mins as @dr.coco does in the video. Shook again. EC=1574 PH=6.49. Took approx.. 600ml of distilled water to arrive at target EC=1353…a couple drops of PHdown to get PH=6.28. Finally, added 2ml rapid start.
Usually I just give it a shake and give it to the ladies…I don’t normally check EC/PH after Rapid start, because the doc didn’t in the video. He did say it has little impact on EC/PH. I’m trying to learn how different fertilizers and supplements affect EC/PH for future diagnostics hahaha, so I checked. EC=1424 PH=5.53. While I thought EC was still pretty okay (+75 EC), PH went down to 5.3(-1.0). That didn’t seem right, and I figured I made a mistake. Redid the whole process, and got almost exactly the same numbers. That seems like a big drop in PH, and puts it below my PH target. I wasn’t sure, but I added a couple of drops PHup to bring it back up to 6.1. I’m wondering if it could be the water temperature, because since switching to distilled water, keeping it below 72 F is a challenge. More research in my future on this one!!
Still fertigating by weight, and seems to be keeping the girls happy! Still need to time it better around the dark period…they were pretty thirsty again today when they woke up! But the growth continues to burst out, and leaves that were pretty sad looking, are twice the size from 2 days ago! Hopefully the weather will cooperate, and I can get some pics in natural light! My two little palm trees(Lemon and Peanut) continue to trudge along, with little change for more than a week…I don’t expect them to make it to the flowering stage, but they are fun to watch, and try to figure out what the hell they are doing with all the yummy nutrients they keep chugging back! LOL
I think tomorrow Cherry will get a new 1 gallon home…her sisters aren’t far behind, but apparently Cherry isn’t patient!
July 29 10pm
Temp = 25.1
RH = 70.1
EC = 1352
PH = 5.77
Still having some issues with nutrient solution, and keeping EC and PH stable, especially after adding Rapid Start…I tried letting the solution sit for 24 hrs after mixing, diluting, and correcting PH. That did help keep EC pretty constant, but PH continued to drop below target after adding RStart, and sitting 24 hrs only raised it slightly. I did realize that what I thought was GH PH up and down, is actually not! Perhaps these cheap(I’m assuming) buffers could be the cause of fluctuation.
For now, I need to mix a fair bit of nute solution to prepare for potting up. After trying several different ways, the only way to keep EC and PH constant, and within target, is to follow the video exactly, till the very end. After the yucca, I added the 2ml of RStart…Let it sit for and hour. Poured off 1 L, and diluted to reach target EC=1300. Then added 1 drop of PHup at a time to hit target PH=6.0. Let sit for another hour…EC=1320 PH=6.11. While this method does keep solution within target ranges, I’m a little concerned…there must be a reason the doc adds RStart after everything…so really hoping this doesn’t screw anything up too bad!
I decided to pot up everybody, except my two palm trees Lemon and Peanut. I know that I messed up the first time I put them into pots, so I was pretty meticulous with preparing the new media…first up, turn 75/25 coco perlite mix into 50/50 mix. After reading Dr. Photon’s article several times, about the quantity of solution required to shift the EC of the suspended solution…thanks @nyweedman…I tested the runoff EC of my new mix…it was almost EC=8000. As well, it was super dusty, and the runoff dark and goopy. I checked the manufacturer info on the coco. It said nothing about buffering, only that it had been triple washed with calcium peroxide. I remembered reading somewhere on CCFC about the 3 types of calcium companies used in buffering, and that calcium peroxide was the one that added a lot of extra salts. Couldn’t find the article again, but given how dirty and full of coco peat, I decided to rinse with tap water until I got the EC=240…the EC of my tap water.
This is exactly what I did last time, but this time I buffered it, as per the video. The second soak will be done tonight just before lights on, so hopefully I get them potted up to. I’m hoping(again), buffering was the right decision! But I feel like it has to be, because of all the calmag deficiencies I had right from the start…so simply rinsing to hit EC, without buffering didn’t work…fingers are crossed!
July 31 10 pm
Temp = 26 c
RH = 71%
EC = 1325
PH = 6,08
Well we have made it through 24 hrs post transplant, and so far everyone seems to be handling it well. All four rootballs looked good and healthy, Cherry had the most roots, and was possibly roots bound/ (see pic). The roots were completely wrapped around, just below the lip of the plastic pot.
All 4 girls are being fertigated 3 times per day. Runoff EC has been steadily climbing, and 3 of the 4 plants are between +200-250 above inflow EC. Orange Kush however is pretty high (+445). This could be because it was too close to the heater, and evaporation was too quick. Also, Kush took considerably more inflow volume than the others. Will give higher volume, and get more runoff next fertigation.
My little palm trees are chugging along. Their rootballs (I peeked) are no where near as developed as the 4 potted up. While they won’t be going through to flower, due to size constraints, I think I will transplant them, just to see what happens with a fabric pot and much better media. Basically they are one big experiment! LOL